Gun Control

[Peter Griffin]

Nobody needs an "excuse for this kind of firepower".....but if you're looking for a reason, look to the Whitehouse.

[StopTheBurning]

The more the democrats try to ban guns the more the gun owners want to buy.
If they would shut up about guns things would get back to normal.
Treat the sick people.

[StopTheBurning]

NBC now reporting that there was NO assult rifle used in the school massacre.  One report was there were 4 hand guns found in the school and another account says only 2.  And there was probably no assult rifle in the car either.  There was some kind of rifle but not an assult rife.
Our media is really corrupt..

[signal]

     Obviously this is a very touchy issue, and a serious debate.
I used to own guns, but I had no place to shoot, so I let my father
sell one, and I gave the other one to a shooter who had no gun
of her own. My father still owns a gun. My girlfriend's older son
is the only licensed gun dealer in Toledo, and is a collector and
military reenactor. Guns are O.K. - if they are stored and used
safely.
     I see no reason to oppose mandatory gun safety training.
There is a perfect correlation between cars and guns. Both are
widely owned, both are dangerous when misused, and both are
controlled (in varying degrees) by the government.
     Every time the debate on restricting what type of guns comes
up, the "home defense" arguement surfaces. Someone here
posted that accidental gun deaths are only 600 per year. Great, nice
to know that cars are much deadlier - if you ignore that most people
use their cars several times each day, and that gun owners only use
their guns once or twice a month. How many gun toting intruders
committed a home invasion last year?
    Remember, home invasions are when you are in your home.
So, whatever that number is, you are assuming that you have to
shoot down 2 or more armed intruders. I think you have better
odds of a heart attack, or maybe even being struck by lightning,
than having to face two men with guns breaking into your home.
And why wouldn't a bolt or lever action rifle, or a 9mm handgun
with 7 or more rounds in the clip be insufficient for this?
    Half ot the arguments posted here are that you need military
assault weapons with 30 round clips to fight the U.S. Government,
and the other half are apparently that a whole battalion of Viet Cong
are going to break into your house, and you need to be armed for
a major firefight until the police show up.
    The question that is really before us is, what can be done to
reduce gun violence in this country? As for your views on our
President, remember two things - Congress has been deadlocked
on virtually every major issue, including emergency aid for the
storm victims on the East Coast, and being President is a risky
job. Someone tried to shoot President Jackson, but his pistols
misfired. Lincoln, Garfield, McKinley, and  J.F.Kennedy were shot
to death. Robert Kennedy was shot and killed while running for
President. FDR was shot at after his election in 1932, the
shooter missed, and killed the Mayor of Chicago. T. Roosevelt
was shot and wounded while running for President in 1912.
George Wallace was crippled by a shooter while running for
President. Reagan was shot and wounded. Two women tried to
shoot President Ford with Handguns. While the White House
was being remodeled during the Truman administration, two
men broke into Blair House, where Truman was staying, and had
a gunfight with the Secret Service. They were killed, but at least
one of the guards was wounded. Presidents are targets, and every
President since Eisenhower has had death threats.
    I think that any President is going to take gun violence seriously.

[bedford wife]

If you want to reduce gun crime, make any offence relating to a gun crime a federal offense.  That will take the burden of prosecution and jailing off of the state.  I don't believe that limiting what kind of gun someone can own is the answer.  I do believe in things like the Laughtenburg (sp) amemdment, that's the sort of thing we should be looking at.  I don't have to justify why I want a higher powered gun, or a larger clip anymore that I have to justify why I want to wear purple or disparage a public official....it's my right and I personally am not going to ever justify why I choose to exercise any right. 

[Peter Griffin]

   
 ...I see no reason to oppose mandatory gun safety training.
 

Signal, I knew we could agree on something.  Anyone who owns a gun (whether carried on a daily basis or not) should practice and train with it/them.  Basic gun safety classes are abundant and relatively affordable but more advanced training is much harder to find and not necessarily cost effective for the average person.  The cost to practice at a range can also get expensive---especially when you have to spend half your time reloading small, 10 round magazines while you're "on the clock".  If this training & practice were available and affordable, I think we would see many, many more people taking advantage of it, thereby making more gun owners even safer than what they already are.
 

[Peter Griffin]

If you want to reduce gun crime, make any offence relating to a gun crime a federal offense.  That will take the burden of prosecution and jailing off of the state. 

Another good point.  However, according to VP Biden, they don't have the "time or manpower to prosecute everybody" that lies on their background check.

and we're back to......enforce the laws that are already on the books.

[Mike Malone Sr.]

Check out this video on YouTube:
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F584p5kJL-U&feature=youtube_gdata_player
 

[signal]

  Why is it that every gun license, background check requirement,
or limitation on what type of gun you can own, is automatically
an "attempt by the government to take away our guns"?
   Gun licensing started in the 1970's - and we still can own guns.
The Brady Bill (which made background checks mandatory, only
to reveal those who are banned from owning guns anyway) is now
30 years old - and we can still own guns.
    There has been no proposal to ban private gun ownership. No
President, no member of Congress has proposed a law banning
your "right" to own guns. And yet, the howls from the right wing
grow ever shriller year by year, that somehow, the "government"
is going to send agents to your door to seize your guns. These
lies are out there just to scare you into voting Republican and
sending money to certain groups who "support" efforts to
"maintain your rights".  The NRA spent 40 Million dollars lobbying
against the Brady Bill, which only required you to wait, until a
background check was performed, before buying a firearm. The
NRA told Congress and the American public, that this law would
severely restrict your right to own a gun. They lied. There are more
guns, and more kinds of guns, per 1,000 citizens in this country
now, than 30 years ago.
   We are the most heavily armed public in the world - and we pay
for it with gun homicide rates 5 times higher than countries like
Norway,Sweden, and Australia.
   Where will it all end?

[Hondo]

1. Background check on all new retail gun sales.  Close the loopholes for gun shows and private dealers.  Antique or classic firearms (pre 1900) and any firearms given to family members are exempt.

2. Include a more comprehensive mental health check (see #3) as part of the background investigation.  Purchaser of the firearm pays a fee to cover costs of background check.

3. Create a mental health database that contains individuals who are deemed a hazard to themselves or to others.  Doctors already have the ability to make this diagnosis.  They should be mandated to share it and protect others.

4. Enforce current laws on crimes committed using a firearm.  We have to make laws (and enforcement) a more effective deterrent and we have to be better at catching criminals.

5. Provide the option of teachers/administrators or public safety officers to carry concealed weapons while on school grounds.  Train them appropriately and pay them more.

There is no need to require additional training for those who legally purchase a firearm.  There is no need to ban assault weapons or high capacity magazines.  The vast majority of firearm deaths are the result of criminal behavior or mental instability.  Let's focus on the problem but take reasonable steps.

[StopTheBurning]

Are you kidding me!!!
"3. Create a mental health database that contains individuals who are deemed a hazard to themselves or to others.  Doctors already have the ability to make this diagnosis.  They should be mandated to share it and protect others."
I might add that i agree with you but this country is now to politically correct to ever do that.
The ACLU would have a field day.

[Hondo]

Yeah, I know.  But that is really the issue that no-one wants to tackle.  Most of these high profile attacks are done by a person with known psychological issues.  That really is the issue and no-one will tackle it.  They'll make assault weapons and high capacity magazines illegal, they'll make every law abiding citizen register the purchase of their weapon.  They'll require all kinds of "training" to make sure you can field strip your weapon blindfolded ( ah, I remember doing that!).

NONE of those measures would have stopped Newtown, nor most of the other mass shootings.  NONE of those measures will stop the murder-a-day rate in Detroit.  But, they'll feel good and tell everyone that they've protected you more.

[chartres]

In reply to a comment above, we may have a higher murder rate than Australia, but Australia has a rate of rape three times higher than the USA, also Australia's rates of assault, robbery, and most other violent crime is much higher than the USA. They can't have guns to protect themselves, so they all become victims. I have asked all of my friends and family to please send me a recent picture of themselves if they feel guns should be outlawed, in return I promise to not intervene if I see them being beaten, robbed and raped. As for me, I carry and I refuse to become a victim!

[Peter Griffin]

In reply to a comment above, we may have a higher murder rate than Australia, but Australia has a rate of rape three times higher than the USA, also Australia's rates of assault, robbery, and most other violent crime is much higher than the USA. They can't have guns to protect themselves, so they all become victims. I have asked all of my friends and family to please send me a recent picture of themselves if they feel guns should be outlawed, in return I promise to not intervene if I see them being beaten, robbed and raped. As for me, I carry and I refuse to become a victim!

Chartres, I applaud you in your decision to exercise your right to defend yourself and others.  If I ever have a child or loved one in danger, and I cannot be there, I hope that you or another armed citizen is there to protect them.

It's a statistical fact that where there are more guns (armed citizens), there is less violent crime.  Almost all countries that have less guns per capita than the U.S. have more (much more) violent crime.  So, yes, I suppose, I would have a better chance of not being shot in that country........but I have a much, much higher chance of being beaten, raped, robbed and stabbed.

[Heisenberg]

Why is it that every gun license, background check requirement, or limitation on what type of gun you can own, is automatically an "attempt by the government to take away our guns"?

Those of us who have paid attention to the gun control issue long enough have learned that the disarming of Americans won't happen a la Ferdinand Marcos making gun ownership a capital crime overnight. It will happen slowly, with small limitations touted as "reasonable" even if they are completely ineffective.

This is why we stand staunchly against small intrusions on our liberty. Because we know it will never be enough. If we compromise on certain weapons, that will only serve to move the debate. Once AR-15s are banned, next will be all semi-automatic rifles. Then the next will be anything that shoots supersonic ammunition, because "why does anyone need a supersonic bullet to shoot deer?". After that it will be any rifle with a magazine.

We won't budge because we have learned that the people who say they only want "reasonable" gun laws are lying. They were lying in the past, and are lying now. If you want to convince us that you really care about solving gun violence, then show us how your solutions will actually solve the problem. Until you can do that, expect every one of your ideas to be ridiculed and dismissed.