Author Topic: Bedford  (Read 9395 times)

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Offline J Hoffa

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Re: Bedford
« Reply #75 on: October 06, 2012, 05:03:50 AM »
Isn't that the point of a forum.  Some intervene in support of a particular point or view while others intervene to support a counterpoint?

I agree with you in that when a statement is made as a fact, then specific examples need to be provided when challenged.

Yes, absolutely!   I have no problem with you articulating your position or opinion in support of any issue. 

However, as you note in your response, and as you have posted on various other topics on this forum, when statements are made as "fact" they need to be backed up and they are certainly open to scrutiny.   I agree with you.  This is clearly something different than simply stating an opinion which is nothing more than that ................an opinion.

From my perspective, Chartres merely asked Time to Talk, the participant who was making "factual" statements on roads, for some backup.

I have done the same thing in requesting Time to Talk for some specifics on roads and what exactly Mr. Wilburn (not someone else, or some other agency, or from one of the township's existing funding sources) has brought to the community, for what road, and in what amount??

I am not going to hold my breath waiting for a specific answer.


« Last Edit: October 06, 2012, 05:15:38 AM by J Hoffa »


Offline Time to talk

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Re: Bedford
« Reply #76 on: October 06, 2012, 10:03:38 AM »
J Hoffa, I assume that when you read and then turn around and use peoples quotes that you do keep them in context.  My statement "If you would like me to expand on that, I would be glad to " I was discussing businesses, opening and expanding. Please do not use people's statements out of context, mine or anyone elses, to make them appear stupid or inaccurate.
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Offline J Hoffa

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Re: Bedford
« Reply #77 on: October 07, 2012, 06:56:06 AM »
J Hoffa, I assume that when you read and then turn around and use peoples quotes that you do keep them in context.  My statement "If you would like me to expand on that, I would be glad to " I was discussing businesses, opening and expanding. Please do not use people's statements out of context, mine or anyone elses, to make them appear stupid or inaccurate.

Since your offer to actually backup your "factual" statements with detailed information was the final sentence of your remarks, it appeared to me that you were providing a testament to the credibility of all your claims.  Obviously, as you have so clearly pointed; you had absolutely no intention of actually backing up all your claims.  How foolish of me to think that anyone who makes "factual" claims should have a responsibility for backing them up.

My mistake and I stand corrected.

Oh, no need for you to address my information request regarding what road improvements Mr. Wilburn actually secured grants for (you know, by himself, that he actually took the lead, not done by others, not done by other agencies, not taken from our existing township funding sources).  I assume that this falls in the category of those items that you choose not to address.  I will pursue this on my own.

In my opinion, our roads have been in poor condition for a very long time, not just the last two years.  Mr. Wilburn has been in office for a long time, not just the last two years.  He could have been working on the road problem nearly eight years ago;  Whiteford Township, that little rural little township to the west, has had a road program.  However, they apparently were not blessed with the caliber of leadership that we have been blessed with.  Two years of focused effort by the Mr. Wilburn team of heating and air conditioners, school teachers, accountants, planners, and administrators, to get us to the point that he asked for a levy that would give him a million dollars a year with no specific plan for ten years.

No wonder you won't backup any of your road improvement remarks or address associated questions.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2012, 10:51:49 AM by J Hoffa »

Offline Hondo

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Re: Bedford
« Reply #78 on: October 07, 2012, 08:19:03 AM »
I read the original post.  Where is there a pawn shop?

Offline Time to talk

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Re: Bedford
« Reply #79 on: October 07, 2012, 09:00:46 PM »
Mr. Hoffa, Jim or I believe Jimmy, even in real life for you, I have every intention of getting a road list together for the person that asked. Your request for every detail of every piece of road work shall not be responded to as it is a ludicrous request for anyone to even think about trying to put together. Mr Wilburn did not nor did I state that he, single-handedly, produced all of this work. I do know that he worked with several specific people regarding finding grants. Your acidity, as well as negativity, is much of what is wrong here.

Yes the roads have not been the best here. Let us add that we are talking over 20 years worth of road deterioration. I do not hear you addressing the fact that Lamar Frederick, former supervisor and one of Mr Stewarts stauch supporters, is one of the people who did little to improve the roads while he was in office or that several of the huge bonds that he obtained for roadwork have finally been paid off. The roadwork that has been done is all paid for thru a team effort of the road commission, the township, and anyone else involved in the project.

The Lavoy bridge another large project along with repaving etc. Just completed was forgotten by the person requesting that list. That was by lobbying at state level to help get the money because the road commission said we are broke. That same person who did not think about that bridge or repaving also forgot all the bridge and road work on Sterns running east from Secor.
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Offline Time to talk

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Re: Bedford
« Reply #80 on: October 07, 2012, 09:28:35 PM »
You also talked about the millage put on the ballot. Yes, Mr Wilburn, knew it was a millage that probably would not pass. Back to the same old bitching from the community about something wrong & someone trying to do something about it when no other way is working fast enough for the community. It was a bad idea but based on all those road meetings that is what the people wanted. A FIX no matter what. Yes the trickle down from our state capital is a drop in the bucket as to what is needed. Did you have a better solution? Did anyone else in this forum, this community, this county or state? I know that my opinion is that there needs to be change in the system at state level. It was also my opinion that if that millage passed we would be seeing even less trickle down to us.

Next lets talk about your throwing Whiteford Township into all of this. Other than on New 223 would you please tell me which roads get even the close to the same amount of traffic that any of our mile roads get. None is the answer. If you do not have the traffic, the trucks, etc. on the roads you have much less that needs repair, repavement etc. Oh and you probably are going to bring up the tractors and combines to me.  I am a farm kid. I know when they are on the road, not even a good comparison, so don't bother wasting your time.
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Offline Time to talk

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Re: Bedford
« Reply #81 on: October 07, 2012, 10:06:38 PM »
Hondo the "pawn shop" that they are talking about that "we buy gold" I believe is the jewelry store on Lewis south of Sterns first plaza on the west beyond Temperance Animal Hospital. They do jewelry repair & other things jewelers do. Sad if that is the Bedford business they are indeed talking about. Rather slanderous if all the person who announced the pawn shop open for business looked at was the gold sign. Who knows maybe we would end up with another business closing their doors and moving out of Bedford and heavens another empty building on Lewis Avenue. And for the person who was saying no more plazas to be built in Bedford because of empty units. Well there would be another. Kinda like the no tell motels on Telegraph brought up same conversation. How long have they been there? You mean those in their late 20s now did not go there as teenagers & smoke weed or whatever? And the ones in their late 30s etc. I am not saying I like seeing them there but all of a sudden that person realized the community was going downhill?

You all have a nice evening. I have put in 2 12 hour days in a row and I am going to have at it. Feel free to bad mouth me because I am speaking up. I will take care of responding later.
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Offline J Hoffa

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Re: Bedford
« Reply #82 on: October 08, 2012, 07:26:44 AM »
You also talked about the millage put on the ballot. Yes, Mr Wilburn, knew it was a millage that probably would not pass. Back to the same old bitching from the community about something wrong & someone trying to do something about it when no other way is working fast enough for the community. It was a bad idea but based on all those road meetings that is what the people wanted. A FIX no matter what. Yes the trickle down from our state capital is a drop in the bucket as to what is needed. Did you have a better solution? Did anyone else in this forum, this community, this county or state? I know that my opinion is that there needs to be change in the system at state level. It was also my opinion that if that millage passed we would be seeing even less trickle down to us.

Next lets talk about your throwing Whiteford Township into all of this. Other than on New 223 would you please tell me which roads get even the close to the same amount of traffic that any of our mile roads get. None is the answer. If you do not have the traffic, the trucks, etc. on the roads you have much less that needs repair, repavement etc. Oh and you probably are going to bring up the tractors and combines to me.  I am a farm kid. I know when they are on the road, not even a good comparison, so don't bother wasting your time.

Yes, lets talk about the road levy.  It is probably the best example because it represents two years worth of Mr. Wilburn's most focused effort and it is more out in the open where anyone can judge what kind of problem solving talent skill he has shown and what he actually brought to the table.

Assemble a Team of Qualified Road Experts
What did Wilburn do?  The team he assembled was:  an HVAC contractor, a retired school teacher, a zoning administrator/planner, an accountant, and an administrator. Not a team of road experts.  Although Lange may have knowledge about road administration, he also represents the foul taste of the MCRC.  Not what I would consider a choice to gain confidence in our community.  Very late in the game, a contractor and an engineer appeared.  Yes, a step in the right direction, but too late to make any difference.  As an aside, the engineer and his engineering company are both contributors to the Wilburn campaign.  Gosh, wonder what his motivation was and if he would be willing to take issue with the guy who would be administering or distributing road improvement contracts?

The Levy That Wilburn Thought Would Probably Not Pass
It is enlightening to know, as you have pointed out, that Wilburn would waste our money on a levy that he thought would not pass.  What a waste of our money.  Guess he wasn't willing to swallow his ego and propose something more palatable that might at least get the community started on a program of road improvement. Guess the road levy had to be "Wilburn's Way" or the "highway"

Other Levy Alternatives
With respect to other alternatives, there were many other alternatives that were suggested on this board including:  proposing something more modest; shorter duration; less funding; a plan with some checks, balances, accountability, and some specifics.  The first plan proposed could easily have been a small step and a small program; but at least it would have started us down the path.  Let Wilburn prove he was capable of implementing a small program to the satisfaction of the community.  Then, based on proven results, ask the community for a slightly larger program etc.  Nope, no chance of that.  "Wilburnís Way" or the "highway".

Wilburn The Businessman
On other topics on this forum, you have boasted about the successful businessman that Wilburn has been and that those are qualities that would serve the community well.  I agree that some of those qualities are important.  However, small businessmen make decisions for their own business; they don't have to tell anyone what they are going to do, how they are going to do it, what their priorities are, who is going to do it for them, and they don't have to be accountable to anyone but themselves.

Here is what Wilburn (the businessman) did in the road levy:  he didn't tell us what he was going to do (no specifics);  he didn't tell us how he was going to do it (is he going to hire his campaign contributors or put all services, engineering and contracting up for bid);  and he didn't include any accountability provisions.  Yep, just being a businessman.

The township supervisor, from my perspective, is a manager who works for the township.  If a manager requests funding for something, it is his responsibility to detail what and how the funding will be used.  Something like "just fix the roads" is less than a satisfactory answer. 

This apparently is a concept that Wilburn does not think applies to him as best illustrated by the road levy.

He didn't just ask for $1,000.00 without detailing what he was going to do
He didn't just ask for $10,000.00 without detailing what he was going to do
He didn't just ask for $100,000.00 without detailing what he was going to do
He didn't just ask for $1,000,000.00 without detailing what he was going to do
He asked for $10,000,000.00  without detailing what he was going to do

Whiteford Township
"Next lets talk about your throwing Whiteford Township into all of this. Other than on New 223 would you please tell me which roads get even the close to the same amount of traffic that any of our mile roads get. None is the answer."

Whiteford Township is a good example in my opinion because, even though they are more rural, Bob Schnipke brought focus to roads a long time ago, not just the last couple of years as with Wilburn.

I have no clue as you what you mean by "our mile roads".

In response to your specific quote on traffic on Whiteford roads that might be equivalent to Bedford's traffic, "None is the answer."? Frankly, I didn't realize that Sterns Road was no longer part of Whiteford Township?  I didn't realize that all the heavy haul stone trucks that travel on Sterns Road to the quarries near Sterns and Whiteford Center Road were not actually traveling thru Whiterford Township.  I didn't realize that all the trucks that go to the facilities off Schnipke Drive and Section Road, near US 23, were not traveling through Whiteford Township.  I didn't realize that supply trucks, that bring materials to Bedford Township, no longer come down Sterns Road and don't go through Whiteford Township.  You better inform the residents in Whiteford township about this, I think they are in for a big surprise.

Shared Responsibility, Past Supervisors/b]
It is fine with me if you want to blame past supervisors for not addressing road problems sooner.  From my perspective, however, that smoke screen does little to change what Wilburn has done the last eight years and in particular the folly of his egotistical road levy.

The road levy, because it represents two years of Wiburn's focused effort, serves as a great example of what he brings to the table.  "Wilburn's Way" or the "highway", I'll take the highway.


« Last Edit: October 08, 2012, 01:57:47 PM by J Hoffa »

Online StopTheBurning

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Re: Bedford
« Reply #83 on: October 08, 2012, 08:51:41 AM »
You have a point on the $10,000,000 thing.  Even a good politician would have laid out a plan for the $10 mil but in the end it would have been a big lie and he would have done what he wanted.  Some of the money would have even been diverted to the new cemetery and park for "roads" maybe.

Offline 2012Bedford

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Re: Bedford
« Reply #84 on: October 08, 2012, 10:03:46 AM »
You also talked about the millage put on the ballot. Yes, Mr Wilburn, knew it was a millage that probably would not pass. Back to the same old bitching from the community about something wrong & someone trying to do something about it when no other way is working fast enough for the community. It was a bad idea but based on all those road meetings that is what the people wanted. A FIX no matter what. Yes the trickle down from our state capital is a drop in the bucket as to what is needed. Did you have a better solution? Did anyone else in this forum, this community, this county or state? I know that my opinion is that there needs to be change in the system at state level. It was also my opinion that if that millage passed we would be seeing even less trickle down to us.

Next lets talk about your throwing Whiteford Township into all of this. Other than on New 223 would you please tell me which roads get even the close to the same amount of traffic that any of our mile roads get. None is the answer. If you do not have the traffic, the trucks, etc. on the roads you have much less that needs repair, repavement etc. Oh and you probably are going to bring up the tractors and combines to me.  I am a farm kid. I know when they are on the road, not even a good comparison, so don't bother wasting your time.

Yes, lets talk about the road levy.  It is probably the best example because it represents two years worth of Mr. Wilburn's most focused effort and it is more out in the open where anyone can judge what kind of problem solving talent skill he has shown and what he actually brought to the table.

Assemble a Team of Qualified Road Experts
What did Wilburn do?  The team he assembled was:  an HVAC contractor, a retired school teacher, a zoning administrator/planner, and an administrator. Not a team of road experts.  Although Lange may have knowledge about road administration, he also represents the foul taste of the MCRC.  Not what I would consider a choice to gain confidence in our community.  Very late in the game, a contractor and an engineer appeared.  Yes, a step in the right direction, but too late to make any difference.  As an aside, the engineer and his engineering company are both contributors to the Wilburn campaign.  Gosh, wonder what his motivation was and if he would be willing to take issue with the guy who would be administering or distributing road improvement contracts?

The Levy That Wilburn Thought Would Probably Not Pass
It is enlightening to know, as you have pointed out, that Wilburn would waste our money on a levy that he thought would not pass.  What a waste of our money.  Guess he wasn't willing to swallow his ego and propose something more palatable that might at least get the community started on a program of road improvement. Guess the road levy had to be "Wilburn's Way" or the "highway"

Other Levy Alternatives
With respect to other alternatives, there were many other alternatives that were suggested on this board including:  proposing something more modest; shorter duration; less funding; a plan with some checks, balances, accountability, and some specifics.  The first plan proposed could easily have been a small step and a small program; but at least it would have started us down the path.  Let Wilburn prove he was capable of implementing a small program to the satisfaction of the community.  Then, based on proven results, ask the community for a slightly larger program etc.  Nope, no chance of that.  "Wilburnís Way" or the "highway".

Wilburn The Businessman
On other topics on this forum, you have boasted about the successful businessman that Wilburn has been and that those are qualities that would serve the community well.  I agree that some of those qualities are important.  However, small businessmen make decisions for their own business; they don't have to tell anyone what they are going to do, how they are going to do it, what their priorities are, who is going to do it for them, and they don't have to be accountable to anyone but themselves.

Here is what Wilburn (the businessman) did in the road levy:  he didn't tell us what he was going to do (no specifics);  he didn't tell us how he was going to do it (is he going to hire his campaign contributors or put all services, engineering and contracting up for bid);  and he didn't include any accountability provisions.  Yep, just being a businessman.

The township supervisor, from my perspective, is a manager who works for the township.  If a manager requests funding for something, it is his responsibility to detail what and how the funding will be used.  Something like "just fix the roads" is less than a satisfactory answer. 

This apparently is a concept that Wilburn does not think applies to him as best illustrated by the road levy.

He didn't just ask for $1,000.00 without detailing what he was going to do
He didn't just ask for $10,000.00 without detailing what he was going to do
He didn't just ask for $100,000.00 without detailing what he was going to do
He didn't just ask for $1,000,000.00 without detailing what he was going to do
He asked for $10,000,000.00  without detailing what he was going to do

Whiteford Township
"Next lets talk about your throwing Whiteford Township into all of this. Other than on New 223 would you please tell me which roads get even the close to the same amount of traffic that any of our mile roads get. None is the answer."

Whiteford Township is a good example in my opinion because, even though they are more rural, Bob Schnipke brought focus to roads a long time ago, not just the last couple of years as with Wilburn.

I have no clue as you what you mean by "our mile roads".

In response to your specific quote on traffic on Whiteford roads that might be equivalent to Bedford's traffic, "None is the answer."? Frankly, I didn't realize that Sterns Road was no longer part of Whiteford Township?  I didn't realize that all the heavy haul stone trucks that travel on Sterns Road to the quarries near Sterns and Whiteford Center Road were not actually traveling thru Whiterford Township.  I didn't realize that all the trucks that go to the facilities off Schnipke Drive and Section Road, near US 23, were not traveling through Whiteford Township.  I didn't realize that supply trucks, that bring materials to Bedford Township, no longer come down Sterns Road and don't go through Whiteford Township.  You better inform the residents in Whiteford township about this, I think they are in for a big surprise.

Shared Responsibility, Past Supervisors/b]
It is fine with me if you want to blame past supervisors for not addressing road problems sooner.  From my perspective, however, that smoke screen does little to change what Wilburn has done the last eight years and in particular the folly of his egotistical road levy.

The road levy, because it represents two years of Wiburn's focused effort, serves as a great example of what he brings to the table.  "Wilburn's Way" or the "highway", I'll take the highway.

Hey Hoffa, if I still had my business I would hire you in a second. I can tell when a thread is well thought out and executed, this one is shining, Bravo. I will be posting my final thoughts prior to the elections soon in a thread, I have 4 years of study and research completed for Bedford, and soon will open that can of worms at the right time.

BEDFORD NEEDS NEW MANAGEMENT WHOM EVER IT AS LONG AS IT IS NOT ANYONE CURRENTLY SERVING, EXCEPT TRUDY....

Offline Hondo

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Re: Bedford
« Reply #85 on: October 08, 2012, 02:27:03 PM »
Oh what will you talk about when Walt's not your whipping boy?  There are more posts bashing this guy personally than actually talking about the issues.  Criticize his decisions, but don't take it to a personal level. 

One more month and this will be over.  Our Savior is coming, right?  At least until he makes his first decision. 

Just wondering if 2012Bedford and J Hoffa are the same person? 

Offline 2012Bedford

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Re: Bedford
« Reply #86 on: October 08, 2012, 04:38:34 PM »
Oh what will you talk about when Walt's not your whipping boy?  There are more posts bashing this guy personally than actually talking about the issues.  Criticize his decisions, but don't take it to a personal level. 

One more month and this will be over.  Our Savior is coming, right?  At least until he makes his first decision. 

Just wondering if 2012Bedford and J Hoffa are the same person?

Not the same. I am not bashing him, just noting his inability to run the township. If I wanted to bash him, I would say something else. But Hondo, Others and myself are just tired of the same ole same ole.

Lets just give someone else a try to help Bedford. No one is perfect, but lets see how close they can get. Walt had 8 years of nothing do about nothing...his legacy will be the Government Center. It's so overbuilt it's not funny.


Offline Time to talk

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Re: Bedford
« Reply #87 on: October 08, 2012, 09:42:19 PM »
 You state you do not know what a mile road is? Our township main roads are 1 mile apart whether east to west or north to south. That is why they are called mile roads. You say you have lived here forever? Well I have only lived around here since 1984 and where I am from they call them something completely different and they are not plotted out the same way. One of the first times I heard that term, I asked what was meant by that. It was explained. It made total sense.

TEAM OF EXPERTS
I do not know how the committee was chosen, do you? Do you think maybe it was because those people offered their help. Did you make that same offer? I would say the answer to that is NO as that way you can stand on the sidelines and shoot negative verbalizations that everything was done wrong. If you are not a part of the solution could be you are part of the problem.
You just threw an accusation of wrongdoing in my eyes at the engineer and contractor. Do you have proof that they did nothing? Or that they enterred into some type of agreement to get a certain share if not all of the contracting work?
If that contractor and engineer are locals don't they know more about Bedford Road uses than an outsider?

WOULD NOT PASS
When it was opted to put it on the ballot, he had hopes of it passing but even a month before the election, he knew it had a good chance of not passing favorably. Too late to modify then,the ballots are already printed.

OTHER ALTERNATIVES
There are always other alternatives and to continually have to put something on the ballot is not cost effective for us either nor does it allow for future planning whether it is for time to look for additional grants, alternatives etc. Plus we have the below.
Also we have the taxpayers/residents of Bedford saying we want it and we want it now. Guess we told him that maybe we do not want it as much as we thought we did like a child to their parent when given options that require something extra from them besides their verbalizations.

WILBURN THE BUSINESSMAN
YES he asked for a lot of money in that assessment but break that down based on the cost of roadwork. It is nothing for $250,000 or even a $1,000,000 to be spent. You are making $10,000,000 seem like an astronomical number. A $1,000 is a drop in the bucket and realistically so is a $1,000,000. And he asked for $10, not so large when you put it into perspective.
His employees were his extended family. His love for this township and wanting it to suceed no different than a business makes us a part of that extended family. Like most families not everyone gets along and of course there are always some black sheep.
Did you ever see his employees not chipping in no matter what the project wherever, however was needed?
Of course he was responsible to those employees as every good businessman who owns/runs a company is responsible to and for their employees.
Are the employees part of every decision? Heck no.

WHITEFORD TOWNSHIP
I believe that the section of Sterns Rd is a maximum of 2 miles from the expressway to Adler Rd. So you are stating that Whiteford has 8 miles of highly traveled roads. And a population of? And we have a population of approx. 32000. How many cars, trucks, etc. Are on our roads on a daily basis versus theirs. Huge difference, I think You are stating that Stoneco and other Whiteford businesses as well as the residents of Whiteford Township did not use our roads? Many of those trucks to make deliveries etc. also come directly north into Bedford Township as well as from I-75. 23 is not our only nearby expressway. Look around and look at all of the Ohio license plates using Smith, Sterns versus Alexis Rd, not to mention all the other major roads that they travel.

SHARE RESPONSIBILTY/PAST SUPERVISORS
You seem to be stating that no supervisor was ever told by the residents of this township brought up to the supervisors that our roads are a problem. I heard the people long before I moved to the township.  Did they try to find moneys to take care of the problems? No unless it was by getting it done thru a bond.  Those do have to be paid off.
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Offline J Hoffa

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Re: Bedford
« Reply #88 on: October 09, 2012, 07:06:09 AM »
You state you do not know what a mile road is?  Quoting you, "Other than on New 223 would you please tell me which roads get even the close to the same amount of traffic that any of our mile roads get" I gave you a list.  The loads that the heavy haul stone trucks bring to Whiteford Township, far exceed anything we see in the township.  Our township main roads are 1 mile apart whether east to west or north to south. That is why they are called mile roads. You say you have lived here forever? Please show me where I say I have lived here forever.  I guess a point you feel you just need to makeup.  Much like your implied reference to 150 miles of road improvements that Mr. Wilburn was responsible for.  Did he have some imput, sure,  Did he have the lead responsibility on the 150 miles. hardly. Well I have only lived around here since 1984 and where I am from they call them something completely different and they are not plotted out the same way. One of the first times I heard that term, I asked what was meant by that. It was explained. It made total sense.

TEAM OF EXPERTS
I do not know how the committee was chosen, do you? [If you are going to ask the community for $10,000,000.00 to solve a very technical problem, I believe you owe it to the community to have the problem investigated by experts in the field (whether it is roads, sanitary sewers, water supply, etc), not just a bunch of well meaning volunteers..  As an alternative, there could have been a very modest one year levy, to generate funds, to engage experts to generate a plan to guide future improvements.  At least we would then have had some idea where we were going.  No plan and no accountability is no basis for requesting $10,000,000.Do you think maybe it was because those people offered their help. Wasted time by unqualified volunteers, well meaning or not, is still wasted time.  The greater concern is that Mr. Wilburn would actually ask us to give him $10,000,000 (no strings attached) based on an unqualified committee.  Did you make that same offer?  I would say the answer to that is NO as that way you can stand on the sidelines and shoot negative verbalizations that everything was done wrong. You have no idea of what I have or have not contributed to the community over the years.  Guess this is a subject you simply want to ask and answer the questions yourself.  I do know that there are several well qualified civil engineers in the township that have contributed time to the community in the past.  Did Wilburn ask any of them to be part of his committee or did he only ask the contributors to his campaign?If you are not a part of the solution could be you are part of the problem.
You just threw an accusation of wrongdoing in my eyes at the engineer and contractor. Accusation, no,  .............  but absolutely an area that, we as a community need to be vigilant about.  Both Mr. Wilburn and the engineer know that they are subject to this kind of scrutiny when they give and take contributions.  In this case, since Mr. Wilburn specified no details about anything, including who would do the work (engineering, contracting, etc), the community has every right to be vigilant. Do you have proof that they did nothing? Or that they enterred into some type of agreement to get a certain share if not all of the contracting work?
If that contractor and engineer are locals don't they know more about Bedford Road uses than an outsider? 

WOULD NOT PASS
When it was opted to put it on the ballot, he had hopes of it passing but even a month before the election, he knew it had a good chance of not passing favorably. Too late to modify then,the ballots are already printed.  Again, from my perspective, the levy that was formulated $10,000,000.00, with no associated accountability deserved to fail.  More importantly, anyone that would propose such a levy at any time, is not acting in the best interest of the community.  This was Mr. Wilburn's committee, he was the lead, he could have put forth anything he wanted at any time he wanted, he choose to put forth a levy with no accountability.   

OTHER ALTERNATIVES
There are always other alternatives and to continually have to put something on the ballot is not cost effective for us either nor does it allow for future planning whether it is for time to look for additional grants, alternatives etc. Plus we have the below.  The same thing could have been accomplished with a more modest proposal.  The significant point of all of this is, however, that the levy defined nothing.  Just said give me $10,000,000 with no provisions for accountability, no plan, nothing.  A five year period for planning is certainly workable.  If after four years, and prior to the expiration of an initial levy, an extension levy could be put forth.  At least then, the community would be able to assess the accomplishments or lack there of.
Also we have the taxpayers/residents of Bedford saying we want it and we want it now. Guess we told him that maybe we do not want it as much as we thought we did like a child to their parent when given options that require something extra from them besides their verbalizations.  Well, that is your opinion.  My perception was that the community was asking for a shorter duration levy with the opportunity to renew based on actual performance.

WILBURN THE BUSINESSMAN
YES he asked for a lot of money in that assessment but break that down based on the cost of roadwork. It is nothing for $250,000 or even a $1,000,000 to be spent. You are making $10,000,000 seem like an astronomical number.Whether Wilburn asked for $1 or $10,000,000.00, the point is still the same.  He owes it to the community to define what he is going to do.  It is pure arrogance to ask for $10,000,000.00 without accountability.A $1,000 is a drop in the bucket and realistically so is a $1,000,000. And he asked for $10, not so large when you put it into perspective.  It's nice that for you, that $10,000,000 is not big deal.   Not the case for me, and as it turns out, not for the voters. 
His employees were his extended family. His love for this township and wanting it to suceed no different than a business makes us a part of that extended family. Like most families not everyone gets along and of course there are always some black sheep. 
Did you ever see his employees not chipping in no matter what the project wherever, however was needed?
Of course he was responsible to those employees as every good businessman who owns/runs a company is responsible to and for their employees.
Are the employees part of every decision? Heck no.

WHITEFORD TOWNSHIP
I believe that the section of Sterns Rd is a maximum of 2 miles from the expressway to Adler Rd. So you are stating that Whiteford has 8 miles of highly traveled roads. And a population of? And we have a population of approx. 32000. How many cars, trucks, etc. Are on our roads on a daily basis versus theirs. Huge difference, I think You are stating that Stoneco and other Whiteford businesses as well as the residents of Whiteford Township did not use our roads? Many of those trucks to make deliveries etc. also come directly north into Bedford Township as well as from I-75. 23 is not our only nearby expressway. Look around and look at all of the Ohio license plates using Smith, Sterns versus Alexis Rd, not to mention all the other major roads that they travel.  You asked for roads in Whiteford that see travel equal to what we have in Bedford.  I gave you examples.  Just how many car trips do you think it takes to equal the wear and tear of just one heavy haul stone truck traveling from 23 to the Whiterford quarries.  Doesn't alter the fact that while Wiburn was working on the Jackman Road palace, Schnipke was bringing focus to Whiteford's roads. 

Even more to your point, if you assume that Whiteford's overall road issues are smaller than Bedford's, Schnipke was focusing on their road issues (even if they had smaller problems) while Wilburn was doing little on a bigger problem. Maybe that really is the better perspective


SHARE RESPONSIBILTY/PAST SUPERVISORS
You seem to be stating that no supervisor was ever told by the residents of this township brought up to the supervisors that our roads are a problem. Didn't say that at all.  You noted that other supervisors should also be held accountable, I said that was fine with me but that didn't alter the fact that Wilburn did little for his first six yearsI heard the people long before I moved to the township.  Did they try to find moneys to take care of the problems? No unless it was by getting it done thru a bond.  Those do have to be paid off.
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Regardless of all of this and all of that, for me, the road levy is the defining point in evaluating Mr. Wilburn's performance and should he leading the township in the future..  He led the road levy effort and he focused on this for two years, he could have put together any type of team he wanted, he could have put together any type of plan he wanted, he could have staged levies in increments with renewals so that the community could evaluate the use of their dollars.  What he did was assemble a bunch of unqualified volunteers and asked for $10,000,000.00, no strings attached.   
« Last Edit: October 09, 2012, 07:45:54 AM by J Hoffa »

Offline Hondo

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Re: Bedford
« Reply #89 on: October 09, 2012, 10:51:42 AM »
My head hurts. . .